Voicing Education

Consciously Educating

What are the realities of teacher burnout?

Women Leaders / by

Well-being and mental health are on the agenda for most educational establishments but are we all truly aware of the realities of teacher burnout and the impact it may have?

This special episode mark’s the start of the new academic year. With the ongoing events in the world at the moment, teachers, will need to remember to manage their wellbeing and mental health.

I speak with Florence Okwusogu about the realties of teacher burnout, understanding your own psychology and being a leader of yourself. 

Florence Okwusogu is passionate about psychology and how we can apply it to our everyday lives. Her desire is to help teachers, to start creating change in their life in a more empowered way.

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You deserve to be healthy, happy and whole… it’s okay to choose you.

Profile photo - teacher burnout

Florence Okwusogu

Teacher Wellbeing & Mindset Coach

Florence founded Aligned Flow because of her belief that our ability to create a happier and healthier life is intrinsically linked to connecting and expressing our deepest self. As a result, she offers an integrative mix of bespoke coaching, mentoring, training and therapy to teachers and educators that goes beyond traditional wellbeing strategies.

Her goal is to empower her clients to unlock potential to fulfil their WHY without sacrificing themselves or their ability to create a life that nourishes them at all levels.

Aligned Flow

Follow Florence on:

Learning points:

  1. Remember to set and be clear with your boundaries.
  2. Become savvy to your own psychology.
  3. Consider authentic leadership as knowing who you are and why you are leading.

Resources:

Clubhouse: The Eduwellbeing Club (Fortnightly on Saturdays)

Book: Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life by Henry Cloud

Course: Coping with work related stress/anxiety

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NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by Otter. Apologies in advance for any typos or errors.

Kathleen Cushnie 0:08
Welcome to Voicing Education- The Podcast. I’m Kathleen Cushnie, founder of Voicing Education, a Senior Leader in Education, trainer and coach. My mission is to help new leaders and teachers aspire to leadership become confident in their ability to lead others successfully. Whether you’re a new or aspiring leader, this podcast will help you to become confident in your ability to lead others successfully. We discuss key themes in education and personal development, and how this impact Educational Leadership let’s move that needle from confusion and overwhelm to clarity and inspiration.

Today I’m speaking with Florence Okwusogu. Florence founded Aligned Flow because of her belief that our ability to create a happier and healthier life is intrinsically linked to connecting and expressing our deeper self. As a result, she offers an integrative mix of bespoke coaching, mentoring, training and therapy to teachers and educators that goes beyond traditional wellbeing strategies. Her goal is to empower her clients to unlock potential to fulfil their why without sacrificing themselves or their ability to create a life that nourishes them at all levels. She has just launched The Eduwellbeing Club on Clubhouse a safe forum focusing on how educators can prioritise their well being. Check the show notes for more information.

Before I start, I just want to thank Financial Joy Academy who are sponsoring this episode. Financial Joy Academy, also known as FJA to its family members, and I say family members as FJA community really are just that Financial Joy Academy is run by husband and wife team Ken and Mary Okorafor. They offer a private space for action taking Dream makers who want to achieve financial independence. Financial Joy Academy have a range of courses regardless of where you are on your journey to financial freedom. Together with fellow Dream makers, Ken and Mary support and encourage you on your own journey, which is what they’ve been doing for me for just over a year now free coaching calls and their popular 5am Club. For more information, head over to their website to take a look at the recommendations from average dream makers. If you’re convinced and want to join our family of dream makers have an exclusive link which gives you 15% off your first month, check the link in the show notes. Financial Joy Academy provides an essential learning for all we know as educators that learning never stops.

Hello, and welcome to Florence Okwusogu who’s with us today. And we’re gonna be talking everything about teacher burnout, exactly what that is, how it unfold, and why it’s so important to for schools and the educational world to take this seriously. So welcome, Florence.

Florence 2:55
Hi, Kathleen, I’m really happy to be here and talk about a subject that I’m really passionate about teacher wellbeing, not just teacher burnout, but teacher well being in general.

Kathleen Cushnie 3:08
Okay. And so, before we go on, I think it’s really important that we talk about teacher burnout. So what would how would you define teacher burnout?

Florence 3:18
That’s a really good question. So burnout is the end result of our system being overwhelmed, and overloaded. So chronic stress, really, and when our system is no longer able to manage itself, then it starts to fail. And that can look like different things to different people. For some people will experience it predominantly as a physical symptoms and the physical manifestations of burnout. Some people it might be more mental stress, emotional, psychological. And for others, it will be a mix of the two. But basically, it’s the symptomology that we get when our system is overloaded due to excessive stress that we can no longer manage and regulate.

Kathleen Cushnie 4:11
Over the years would you say that you’ve seen or known people that have suffered from teacher burnout?

Florence 4:17
That’s another really good question. And I guess the answer to that would be…no. Yes and no. The reason being is that I believe it’s one of those subjects that teachers hold very, very close to them, because there is a fear an unwillingness to to share to be vulnerable in that area because of what it might mean for them. So I haven’t had teachers come up to me and necessarily say I’ve experienced burnout but, it’s expressed in different ways. It’s expressed through tiredness and Illness and disaffection and disillusionment. And in areas where I guess it’s safe for teachers to express themselves, for example, online, there are a lot more likely to come out and say then and use the word burnout. But if you’re in an environment where I guess, you know, you can specifically see a teacher, they’re less likely to use those words, and you’re more likely to see it expressed in other ways, and even other ways that they’re talking. But they, they’re less likely to use the words teacher burnout.

Kathleen Cushnie 5:37
It’s interesting what you said that they feel that they can’t say it because of what might happen, which is sad, really, which is why I think this needs to be taken quite seriously. So why would you say setting boundaries is important, and how do you set them for yourself.

Florence 5:52
Boundaries are important because it’s about recognising and valuing ourself as a standalone entity, and ourselves, and our own resources as well. It’s like, if you have a property, your property has boundaries, you take care of your property, if somebody was to come into your property and mistreat it, then it would stir up emotions and stress. And it will make you feel vulnerable and threatened and stressed because that’s your safe place. That’s, you know, that’s something that you look after, it’s where you can go to and and be yourself.

So when we’re talking about having boundaries, we’re really talking about having space that allows us to operate and feel safe, feel calm, feel able to function at our optimal level. When we don’t have boundaries, what happens is that people come into that space, and we’re not able to feel like we can protect our resources. And that’s really what it is about the ability to protect our resources, so that we can function at our best. And what I found is that often, and maybe it’s something you will touch upon, but if you go into a vocational space, boundary setting can be quite difficult to do because you kind of feel like actually, the reason why I’m here is to give and give, and give and keep giving. And then there’s there’s the added kind of people pleasing element that also gets thrown into the mix.

So setting boundaries is important, because we need to be at our optimal best, we can’t do that if we feel under threat under stress under pressure, because our our space has been encroached, or there’s a potential threat or harm in any way. And you know, our, our body, our physical body, and our and our psychological cells can be placed in a position of fret, in a position of risk when we feel unsafe. And so having boundaries is really important. Especially in teaching, if you think about the kind of things that we have to manage the kind of sometimes high risk behaviours, unpredictable behaviours, very heavy emotional subjects as well, and that students might bring to us yeah, it’s very important that we can manage our boundaries and manage our own resources.

Kathleen Cushnie 8:37
Yeah, absolutely. And what you were saying there about the analogy that you gave about someone encroaching your space, I think that sets it quite clear. And you’re able to really understand them, why it’s important to have the boundaries, because it’s so easy, like you said to…because we are generally most of us that are in education, and people pleasers because we just want to go above and beyond.

So we go, ‘oh that’s, okay, I’ll do that. That’s all right. It’s okay. No, no, it’s fine. I do, I’ll do that.’ Until it gets to the point where you’re just, I guess, everything is just come so close. And you just don’t know where to turn, what to do, what to do first, and so on. And it becomes a bit overwhelming. It’s not a bit overwhelming, it is overwhelming. So setting the boundaries, like you said, is so important. It’s a really, really good analogy, I think, because that’s made it quite clear in my mind, seeing it as your space is something because I mean, I don’t like people coming too close to me. So if I see like that, if I see as someone coming a bit too close with their demands, then I’m more likely to push those boundaries back. So thanks for sharing that. I think that’s a really good way of looking at it in terms of space. It makes it very, very clear and easy to understand.

Florence 9:47
Yeah, you’re welcome. Thank you.

Kathleen Cushnie 9:48
Just thinking about personal boundaries and teacher burnout and your journey. I know that you’ve been a teacher, and you’ve been working in education and now you’ve moved out into something different. Can you tell us a bit about your journey in education?

Florence 10:04
Yeah, definitely. So I went into teaching as I think a lot of teachers do to make a difference. I was one of those kids in school who was quite quiet, introverted, you know, quiet, quiet. And I found it, I found it quite a struggle, I had lots of stuff going on in at home. And so I found it, quite a struggle. And I really wanted to be there for the child version of me, you know, to really support that version of me, and to support them with their confidence and to support them with their well being and to, you know, be their cheerleader so that they could make that progress in life, regardless of what else was happening for them outside. And so no surprise, I went into teaching not just to teach my subject specialism was psychology. So not just to teach psychology, but also maybe more importantly, to be there; to be that teacher that students get to go to. And I was, you know, my door was always open, break time, lunchtime, after school, before school, walking down the corridor, you name it, you know. And I think after a couple of years, my first goal, I was given the responsibility of running the counselling service for students.

But I think probably around that time, I began to experience lots of strange physical symptoms. And at that time, I didn’t really understand what was going on, I went to the doctor and thought that, you know, it would be something that, you know, they’ll tell me, this is wrong, be super easy to deal with. But, you know, they didn’t know what was what was wrong with me. And I was still going at full speed, or at more or less full speed with this kind of symptoms with these symptoms, hanging on to me, so doing the best that I could do. And then after a while, it started to have an impact on my ability to do the job. So my ability to concentrate, my memory, I was tired all the time was making mistakes in my marking. And I realised that actually, I was just getting worse and worse that, you know, I was I was gaining weight, there was inflammation. And it was, I was a hot mess, really, to be honest. And I remember thinking to myself, I have to I have to leave, I have to leave for my health. I have to leave. But the thought, the other thought that kind of played on me was, what about the students? What about the school? You know, if I leave what will they do. But then I remember at that time, I was praying a lot. And I remember just thinking, actually, this is a question of either me being here to fight another day, or, you know, something happened to me, and I’m no longer here. And when it was put in those terms, I knew that I had to leave, you know that I couldn’t, I had to think about myself.

So I left. And to be honest, it was a very traumatic experience for me. I, I couldn’t go back to teaching for a really long time, until kind of money necessitated it. And then it was really kind of temping roles. And I was actually diagnosed with a rare auto immune condition. And it took me six years to get that diagnosis because the condition was so rare. And that was years of kind of go into different specialists being passed around becoming disillusioned with the National Health Service, turning to alternative medicine, and really beginning to look into my own psychology to understand, okay, yes, I have this illness, but what led me to this place and really begin to beginning to understand my role in developing that condition.

And as a result of learning about how, how I had in a sense created that situation. It led me into exploring counselling and therapy and coaching work and well being and positive psychology (really Applied Psychology) instead of just kind of teaching the theoretical side of it. So I started coaching! And I realised that actually my passion lies in helping other women, and especially teachers to really understand their own psychology, understand the things that drive them. So it’s not just about, okay, you’ve got burnout. Now, how do you recover from it, but really understanding how to be your best by understanding who you are, and creating the right environment for you to flourish and thrive. So you don’t have to reach that stage. And if you do reach that stage, how you can make changes to who you are being so that it’s not a repetitive cycle.

Kathleen Cushnie 15:43
So almost prevention is better than the cure, is where your work is focussed then. So can you tell us a bit more about the work that you’re doing today then what how do you…How do you help teachers?

Florence 15:55
So a lot of it is focused on mindset, and what I call becoming savvy to your psychology. I, even though I taught psychology, I wasn’t really aware of my own. And therefore I couldn’t see when I was walking into the danger zone, the disaster zone. I was just doing all the things because I was being driven by these triggers my past story that was fuelling everything I was doing in the present. So I was being led rather than doing the leading.

When we think about what we’re actually doing in education and any other job that we do, we are called to be leaders. And we should start by being leaders of our own selves, really, I mean, how do we how do we, how can we lead other people when we’re not aware of who we are. What drives us. Where our blind spots are. What our strengths are. How we can overcome certain situations, how we can thrive. So it’s really about learning, who we are. Learning how we respond, and how we react, why we react in the way that we do? How do we stop doing that? How do we find better ways of being so that when we are in that situation, we are in control, we’re not being triggered, we’re not reacting. We are choosing how to respond. We can create an environment that is nourishing for us that supports us. We can create an environment that allows us to be our best selves. So yeah, that’s the kind of work that I do with teachers the really kind of deep stuff. Yes, there’s the resilience building and the coping strategies, but I kind of see those as like plasters that you stick on and hope for the best, afterwards. You really need to get to the core of who you are and who you are being in order to make those sustainable changes. And to be the person that you need to be in order to do the job that you want to do.

Kathleen Cushnie 18:01
You’re so right! Just get to the core of who you are and who you are being because I think, I don’t know… if I’m thinking about myself, but I would say, like you say you go, many teachers go into teaching to help and you know, feel that they can save or make an impact and so on. But as always, I would say that teachers, what they’re trying to do is always prove themselves, which is why we get so entangled into this mess. We go above and beyond. And then if we don’t know who we are and why we’re doing it. And like you say it can lead to teacher burnout or other things. It can be a trigger for other illnesses. Just going back to what you were talking about with your illness. That wasn’t teacher burnout was it? Just to make it clear.

Florence 18:42
It it was it was just manifested as an autoimmune condition. Yeah, so yeah. So a lot of the time, especially when you’ve got unexplained symptoms, after a while, if you wait long enough, it will be given a diagnosis of some sort, whether it’s fibromyalgia, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, but all of that is a result of the chronic stress. And if that chronic stress is a result of the profession and the role, then that is teacher burnout.

Kathleen Cushnie 19:12
I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me. So talking about, you know, all of your career and where you are today. What would you say is the one conversation that you instigated that has had a huge impact in your career?

Florence 19:27
One conversation? I don’t think that there’s any one conversation to be honest with you. And if there was one conversation, it would be a conversation that I had with myself. Yeah. And probably actually, if I think about it is that conversation that I just said, that I spoke about earlier, when I realised that I had a decision to me because it was such an enormous shift for me. And it was a shift of immense courage and bravery, I think to really say, actually, yes, I know that there are all these people who potentially are relying on you or who you perceive to be relying on you. But actually, you are a person in your own right as well. And you deserve care. And you deserve to be healthy and happy and whole. And it’s okay for you to choose you. So if that was a conversation that shifted everything for me, it would be that conversation. Yeah.

Kathleen Cushnie 20:25
Interesting, interesting that is with yourself, because I think our voice, what we say to ourselves is very, very powerful. And I think it’s often underestimated how powerful the words that we used to ourselves have. So what does leadership mean to you overall would you say Florence?

Florence 20:43
That’s another good question. I’m currently doing a Master’s in Applied Positive Psychology and Coaching Psychology. And I’ve been thinking about topics that I’m interested in. And one topic that has come to my mind is positive leadership. And when I think of positive leadership, one of the key words that come to me is authentic leadership. It’s when we think of leaders, it’s very easy to think of it as being a role, but it should be a way of being. It should be something that we are. Something that we personify, and therefore it should flow naturally out of us. We shouldn’t have to try it, yes, there’s going to be some effort, some change involved, especially if we’re stepping into a new, a new space, then we’re learning to be but it should be about that it should be about being and not about doing. Because when we’re doing we’re up in our heads, and we’re trying to, we’re trying, and we’re often trying too hard. So to me leadership is about recognising again, who you are, why you were doing it, what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are, being somebody who other people feel safe with and want to follow. And because you know, I guess your strengths and your weaknesses, utilise in the people around you, to the best of your ability, and helping them grow as well.

Kathleen Cushnie 22:20
I like what you said about, you know, a leader helping others to feel safe, because I think, I think that’s one of the most important things really. If you feel safe around the person that’s leading you, you’re more willing to speak up, you’re more willing to share things, you’re more willing to take risks and to grow. And it’s and it’s often one of the things that isn’t openly spoken about, I think, you know, communication is spoken about being authentic, but allowing the people that you’re leading to feel safe, is crucial. I think it’s crucial for growth. So thanks for bringing that up as well. It’s a good point.

Florence 22:55
Absolutely. I think like one of the things I always felt, as a teacher, what’s the importance of students feeling safe in the in the classroom, because they can’t learn, they can’t grow if they don’t feel safe. We are leaders in the classroom. So if we take that out the classroom to any other space, why wouldn’t we use the same ethos with the people that, you know, we work with our colleagues, people who we are responsible for!?

Kathleen Cushnie 23:23
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it’s, it’s not rocket science, but it’s so simply forgotten. Because like he said, some people see, (I don’t know if you did say this, or is it why heard) but some people see, the leadership as a role, whereas it should come naturally. And if you are naturally going from a classroom, where you’re able to make people feel safe, then yeah, why not take it into your own leadership? It doesn’t… there is no difference! And to be honest, in any relationship, you should be making the people around you feel safe. That’s just a given, isn’t it? So it’s something to I think, really consider that point. I would say, as a leader, your role is to make people feel safe. It’s so important, I can’t stress, how much of that really resonates with me. So what stage of your journey so far have you had the greatest personal growth?

Florence 24:21
I think it’s a cumulative thing. Actually, it’s really hard for me to answer those questions. I thought at each, each stage there’s been something that I’ve had to tackle to cause me to grow. And we’re always growing. But what I do feel is really important is the ability to be courageous. I think that it’s so so important. There’s no growth without courage and stepping into the unknown, stepping into a place of fear. Really thinking about where our comfort zone ends and learning to feel into that space. That’s what I’ve always tried to do. And you know, the people that I work with, I really support them in that space because we can’t grow if, if we don’t allow ourselves to stretch, if we don’t allow ourselves to feel the fear, because it’s telling us something. That’s what I believe, you know, that the fear is speaking to us about our hidden thoughts and our beliefs, being able to face those things that we’d rather not face. That’s what helps us to grow and become the best version of ourselves – yeah.

Kathleen Cushnie 25:44
Absolutely. Great answer. So I know that you’ve spoken before about the educational system, and change agents. So what do you believe needs to happen in order for teacher well being to be taken seriously?

Florence 25:57
I know people have so many, so many different thoughts about this. And it’s such a hard one, you know, I’m not gonna say that I know the answer. But I think that it can be addressed at different levels, I definitely think that there is a space where the individual can begin to deal with it. As I as I said, if I had maybe understood myself a bit more, then I wouldn’t have experienced what I did in the same way, maybe not, to not experience it at all, but in the same way.

But then we’ve also discussed about how teachers often have underlying reasons why they go into teaching that drives them, and in a sense, reinforces all of those behaviours. And I actually feel that leadership often plays on those vulnerabilities that teachers have and it becomes a vicious cycle. So at the individual level, there are things that need to be addressed. So we’re not so reactive, and we can choose, but then leadership, it’s a game, sometimes I feel that is played to offset teachers against one another, to position yourself in a particular way. And I feel if leader if leaders were to actually be on the teachers side and address those issues, give them the support that they need, the emotional support, so that there’s not a culture of fear. They feel able to talk about things more openly, that they’re not constantly scrutinised, that they that they don’t feel that they can’t say no. That there’s actual real communication about boundaries, and what that can look like for it to work for both parties, so students, staff and leaders, because everybody’s in a tight position.

And then lastly, it has to be right from the top from government. I know speaking to you, you’ve spoken about how you know, government really needs to understand what what it’s like to be in schools. And if they’re not, if they’re not aware of those issues that teachers face that schools face, and there’s always going to be that pressure from the top which gets distilled down to teachers.

Another thing is parents and society, I think they play a huge role in maintaining the school culture, societal and parental expectations of teachers are… it’s immense! And I really felt I’ve been I’ve been on maternity leave, I go back into my role, the middle of this month, August, but I was very aware of how my fellow teachers were struggling him during the pandemic, and how much pressure they were facing, how much pressure parents placed on them, because their children were at home, and they wanted their children to be at school. And I understand that they had jobs to go to and things like that. But teachers were expected to, to really continue on as normal. In such a difficult situation, and my heart really did go out to them. I really hoped that the pandemic would give society a new perception of the amazing work that teachers and educational staff do, and really help afford them that greater amount of respect that they deserve for the work that they do. It’s not just about teaching subject knowledge, it’s, you know, all the other things that we take for granted. And I’m yet to see, I’m yet to see that. But yeah, so those areas, parents and society, teachers themselves leadership and government. And maybe even I would say the students, pupils as well.

Kathleen Cushnie 30:07
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a team effort, isn’t it? Yeah, hopefully one day, we will see some changes. I mean, it does. It does take the teachers, I would say first to start, perhaps voicing exactly how they’re feeling. But I think they need that safe space that you were referring to before. So the leaders and the teachers need to do something first. And then hopefully, that will filter through, but it takes it takes one person to make a stand really doesn’t. Yeah. Which is at the minute, it seems like it’s difficult.

Florence 30:40
Yes, it is difficult. I, I think sometimes what the problem is, is that teachers are so invested in the job, that it becomes their identity. And they can’t step back from it, and actually address the problem, because that there’s that fear of what happens if you know, this is taken away from me. So that’s really what I mean about being a change agent. Sometimes you need somebody who’s been able to step away from the system and see it more clearly, without that emotional entanglement to actually flag up those issues and say, you know, be the voice for those people who, who aren’t ready to use their own voice yet. Yeah.

Kathleen Cushnie 31:27
Yeah, that sounds like you. Yes. And speaking about you, why would you say that your work is valuable?

Florence 31:37
It’s hopeful! It’s hopeful. And I think we need hope. Teachers are leaving the profession because they lose hope. And that’s a sad thing. Because oftentimes, it’s the best teachers that are leaving the ones who came with so much enthusiasm, so much passion and strength and will to change, but they get worn down, and they get worn out and so they leave. And what we need is to let them know that there is hope, there is hope for them as individuals, because it changes who you are. That’s the thing when you, when you have undergone stress to the extent that it reaches burnout, or it reaches post traumatic stress, it changes you fundamentally, it shifts your worldview, it really knocks your beliefs. And that’s why people often leave because they become disillusioned. It’s not what they thought it was. So providing hope really helps them see that there’s a space for them still. And even if they choose to come out of education, they have that hope that they can make a change. It’s not them. It’s not them, the problem isn’t there. It’s something else. And maybe it wasn’t a right fit for them, but there is a fit for them elsewhere. So that self belief that self care, that self love that self worth, that will still drive them to take all that energy and make an impact somewhere else.

Kathleen Cushnie 33:13
Great. So as we’re coming to the end, I’ll just like if you could share what resources you’ve found valuable along your journey, so maybe a book or podcast.

Florence 33:25
Yeah. So really, it’s been personal development work. So a variety of courses. As I said, I went on a counselling course, I did a hypnotherapy diploma, I worked in a mental health trust. So I was actively learning and using CBT. But outside of that I did read a lot of books, I continue to read a lot of books, because it’s when I come across an area of myself that I’m like, oh, there’s a wound there, there’s something there that needs to be addressed. Then I go into that I purchase a book on that. So a big one was boundaries. For me, I spoke about boundaries. And I can’t remember the name of the book now, but it was a book on on boundaries. And that’s where I got that analogy from the property analogy. And it really, really helped me understand the role of boundaries and why we need to have boundaries not bad thing at all. Growing up, I was ‘No’ was like a swear word in my house. You know, we just didn’t say no, especially to the authority figure. And so I really had to re educate myself with that. So some people call it reparenting, you know, you have to kind of what are the skills what are the things that you need to, to learn, to develop, to grow and go out what each different so it’s all going to be different from us.

So that’s why I say becoming savvy about your psychology, knowing what you need to address your own unique areas, that you need to address and go out and find resources in that. If you need to see a counsellor go and see a counsellor, if you need to see a therapist go and see a therapist. I journal, I journal a lot. I’ve written a few, a few books, mainly for my own benefit, but I’ve self-published them in the in the hope that you know, they will help other people. So yeah, just constantly working on myself in different ways.

Kathleen Cushnie 35:26
Okay, brilliant. And how can our listeners find you online if they want to get in touch with you?

Florence 35:33
Okay, so I’m currently working on a website at the moment, the address is www.alignedflow.co.uk. But it’s a space where people can learn more about the work that I do, if they want to get in touch and find out more about if I can help them.

Kathleen Cushnie 35:53
Fantastic. And we’re going to end with three deep dive statements and a random question. So you okay, right there is that you just answer it. First thing that comes into your mind. So teacher wellbeing is important, because…

Florence 36:07
…teachers are people too!

Kathleen Cushnie 36:10
Brilliant! It is vital that new leaders…

Florence 36:12
…take time to discover what, what they’re good at.

Kathleen Cushnie 36:20
Hmm, good. And my mission is to…

Florence 36:25
…help make the world a happier and healthier place.

Kathleen Cushnie 36:28
Brilliant. Thank you. Okay. And then your question is, you are invited to an educational event, and are seated next to the Secretary of State for Education. What is the one thing that you’d bring up in conversation?

Florence 36:42
Oh, gosh, that is such a good question. One thing that I bring up in conversation, what is the purpose of exams?

Kathleen Cushnie 36:51
You know, what!? I would love to be there to hear the answer to that. How can we in today’s age justify the purpose of exams?

Florence 37:04
Yeah, I think I was playing out in my head. I was thinking, how do I how can I link this back to, you know, workload and you know, overwhelm and pressure and all the pressure that is in an education system. And it’s basically assessment, it’s that constant drive for assessment and measuring people against standards. And you know, what is the purpose and why?

Kathleen Cushnie 37:31
Yeah, yeah. Why? I hope someone asked him that question, I’m sure people have it just that we will never ever hear the answer to that, really. And so thank you. It’s been a really, really insightful conversation. There’s so many points that you’ve highlighted and some really good key takeaway things that I think people can really consider and think about and reflect on, really. So thank you, Florence, for joining me today. It was really nice talking with you.

Florence 38:00
Thank you, Kathleen. Thank you so much.

Kathleen Cushnie 38:04
Thank you so much for listening. I hope you were inspired and gained some insights, which can help you as you progress on your journey. Do share your key takeaways on social media, and let people know what resonated with you. Remember to tag me, I’d love to see your thoughts and subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already. Thank you for being here. Until our next episode, be safe, be well, but most importantly, keep growing. Remember, there is power in your voice. And it all starts with a conversation.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai